2030. i heard alicia keys soundtrak. amazing. everybody here for queen, excited about it. you'll see that shortly. msnbc broadcasts from up there later tonight. alex, the best view starting at 4:00 p.m. >> we'll be watching. seeing you. thanks, savannah. all of you be sure to catch the festival from central park beginning toegd at 4:00 eastern here on msnbc. okay, kendis gibson, top of the hour. over to you now. i think people need to stay up and watch queen. probably they're the last group to perform. >> it's going to be a long night. looking forward to seeing alicia keys as well, i know. >> alex, enjo your saturday. >> thank you. hello, everybody. i'm kendis gibson here at msnbc headquarters in new york. the "new york times" reporting the white house use add highly classified computer system to score transcripts of calls between president trump, vladimir putin and the royal saudi family. and the president of ukraine

abruptly quits. what does it mean as democrats seek his testimony? meantime, new information about a timeline for impeachment. the state of house voting to impeach the preltsident is the g question. and amy klobuchar joins me in a few minutes. we have a lot to get to in the white house whistle-blower firestorm this hour. the "new york times" now reports the white house classified computer system is used to hold transcripts of not only trump's conversations with ukraine also with vladimir putin and the saudi royal family and the "washington post" reports president trump told top russian officials he wasn't concerned about moscow's interference in the u.s. election. this as the first subpoenas in the ten-day-old whistle-blower scandal are now issued to none other than than secretary mike pompeo. the number of house representatives supporting from form of impeachment inquiry

continues to grow. the latest tally from nbc news now 226. joining me now to unpack this is nbc's white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, joining me from the north lawn. kelly, start with the "new york times" reporting. that story about the classified computer system being used to hold transcripts of sensitive calls. what more are we learning about that this hour? >> reporter: the "new york times" was able to move the ball forward to identify calls from putin and calls between the president and putin and between the president and saudi's crown prince were included. we had at nbc also been reporting about the use of this extra secure server, which would require a code word to get access to documents contained therein. so over the last couple days our reporting has been that the white house chose to use what would be classified conversations between the president and a foreign leader at a lower level typically, but

still classified, and put them in the highest level of secure server protection, which would mean far fewer people would have access to them. what we have not been able to determine yet and the "new york times" has filled it in a bit was only the biden-related call between the president and ukraine and now the reporting suggests it goes beyond that to include other what would be high-profile calls to be sure whatever the president, whenever he speaks to vladimir putin or the saudi crown prince. remember at the time of the controversy of the death of the "washington post" columnist khashoggi. what we don't know is are more random, if i could use that term, less high-profile leader calls also placed behind that kind of a protective call? that's part of what we don't yet know. our reporting is the white house does acknowledge that nsc lawyers, national security council lawyers made this decision to put those documents behind that wall of security,

and they call that appropriate. others have said by predicting thpredicting -- restricting that access it cuts off other parts of the government from understanding these conversations. was it done because there was concern about the content of the call or just trying to protect the president from leaks and embarrassment? earlier in the administration calls with leaders to australia and mexico who were not the subject of controversies, were leaked in some form and fashion, became parts of news stories that were unflattering to the president, and his displeasure at that caused them to change some of the procedures. so that's part of what we're learning through the whistle-blower complaint about this system. the real core of what the impeachment inquiry will be about is not so much the server and the process, but what was the president's conduct? what was he offering, if anything, demanding, if anything, with the ukrainian leader to try to get information

about joe biden and his son hunter biden? and that's what lawmakers are certainly going to be trying to get at and that's what's key in what we'll see in a rare recess time with congress out of town, members of the intelligence committee will still be doing some work during that break to try to get some additional information. namely doing interviews with state department officials and set a deadline of next friday for the secretary of state under subpoena to provide documents to try to give them a better understanding of the role of the state department in the work that the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, was doing to try to pressure as they described it ukraine to look at the bidens. kendis? >> kelly, ask you about those subpoenas. nobel subpoena the secretary of state but several state debt officials. are those basically dead on arrival or do you get a sense the white house will cooperate? >> reporter: they've subpoenaed secretary of state, custodian of all documents for the department

of state. that went to him for documents the committee is trying to seek. it's not clear to us at all. i don't believe the people asking to do interviews with are under subpoena. they've scheduled several officials to do depositions. behind-the-scenes interview. not the big hearing we're accustomed to seeing to include specific fact. the former ambassador to ukraine who lost her position in the midst of a lot of this controversy. also people who would have key information about how rudy giuliani may have been interacting could also include state department official who was said to have been on the phone call when the president was speaking with president zelensky of ukraine. this is congress trying to compel the state department to cooperate. will it go anywhere? a subpoena's a powerful tool. congress has this authority and now under an impeachment inquiry it is a greater authority. but so far the administration has been obstructing whatever it

can trying to provide this. so it will be an important thing to see what happens with that deadline on friday, if the secretary of state will comply. kendis? >> while democrats try to speed things up you get a sense the white house will be fighting this all the way. kelly o'donnell there at the white house. by the way, overnight this came as a big surprise to us. one of the key persons that kelly kind of referred to there seen as a leeson between the president and top ukrainian officials suddenly resigned his post as special envoy. ambassador kurt you havolker. put president trump in touch with ukrainian officials around the time of the call from the president. josh what are we learning more why he may have stepped down and the possible impact this might have on testimony that he's expected to make come next week?

>> it could be significant for the impeachment proceedings kendis, because lawmakers will want to hear all about what happened with rudy giuliani and ukraine? why the state department seemed to be facilitating interactions between rudy giuliani and the ukrainian government? and what mr. volker knew about it and why he decided to take that critical step of introducing mr. giuliani to the ukrainian president's office, and if kurt volker, this u.s. representative was still in government, might have been limited what he could say. might have gotten pressure from the administration not to go testify or not to be as forthcoming. now that he's out of office no longer serving in government, associates of mr. volker tell us they expect he will be much freer in what he's able to say if he does go to speak to congress, and as you mentioned we expect that request will be coming very soon.

>> and, josh, as you know, volker is mentioned, i said some five times in that whistle-blower report. what exactly what his involvement? >> so he had been serving as the special representative for ukraine negotiations and after that trump phone call with the ukrainian president we've all been reading and talking about, where trump basically said he wanted the ukrainians to talk to rudy giuliani. the ukrainians reached out to kurt volker they knew from serious ways and put us in touch with rudy giuliani and he did. unanimous how this part played out, that kurt volker called up giuliani and said is it okay to give your number to the ukrainians? but whether kurt volker did it voluntarily, thought it was a good idea or something he had to do because he knew the administration and the president wanted this to happen is a big

outstanding question. as is something else that specifically referenced in that whistle-blower complaint related to mr. volker. he said he was so concerned about the damage to national security that rudy giuliani was inflicting as a result of his work that volker actually had to call giuliani and try to contain the damage. that will be a critical question for lawmakers to ask if they get a chance to question ambassador volker. >> a sense where exactly the questioning will begin. thanks to you. the big question right now is, how is all of this playing out with many americans? it turns out a growing number of americans are backing the idea of impeaching this president. the latest morning consult poll shows calling for impeachment has grown from 7% last weekend and even 43% oppose impeachment. with the warren campaign now in the town of rockhill, south

carolina, north of the state. ali, the question that a lot of people are wondering, while a lot of people in the beltway have talked about impeachment, what are the folks you've been meeting all week saying? >> reporter: kendis, we're here today in rockhill, south carolina, elizabeth warren is about two hours from starting an convenient and has a pretty big crowd. the first person in line says he got here around 10:00 this morning. she has a crowd here. we've been spending this week in new hampshire talking with voters there, and that divide you just talked about we're seeing in the polls, we've been watching it play out in realtime on the ground. listen to some of the conversations we've been having on this issue of impeachment. >> i wanted to circle back. >> very confusing. >> on the impeachment front because you mentioned joe biden, the deal with his son. is there anything in the ukraine phone call president trump had that makes you feel a little weird or is it -- >> no. >> it's business as usual?

>> business as usual between one country and another. >> what's happening right now in congress has not helped the democrats. they are not helping themselves acting like school children on a pl playground. >> reporter: do you think the better way, if you don't want him four more years do it at the ballot box? >> i think biden could beat him. >> reporter: is that why trump made that phone call? >> of course he did. how he won the last election. how he does everything. he's a spoiled brat. >> reporter: and so kendis, even talking to voters here in line today, it's been interesting, because they're unsurprisingly, at an elizabeth warren event, they think an impeachment inquires is the rye move and some say democrats are playing it correctly focusing just on the conversations president trump had with the ukrainian president on the issue of joe biden. a man in line made a good point. a lot of democrats elected on

impeachment generally the idea of holding president trump accountable. so it's going to be interesting as democrat candidates get out here on the campaign trail talking about 2020, about bread and butter issues, clear they're have to make a case there there to hold president trump accountable as well. someone like senator war han to fito -- warren has to speak about bread and butter items in hur stump people and also accountability. as we gotten dough down this road of impeachment how it play us out in washington is something i'll watch. how the 2020 candidates parlay that out here on the campaign trail where voters want to hear of course wab president trump but many want to hear more than that. >> easy for members who are not members of congress to talk about the bread and butter issues, the others with the day job there on capitol hill kind of have to straddle that fence. ali vitali in south carolina.

thank you. straight ahead, the silent treatment? we haven't heard much from the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell since the controversy broke. if democrats have their way, the impeachment inquiry will be before them in weeks. and senator klobuchar joins me next. i don't keep track of regrets. and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on...

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the battle lines in d.c. are drawn on another front. this time over the president's emergency declaration to fund the border wall. the house voted late last night to overturn marking the second time by the way that congress has tried to block this emergency funding. the senate also pass add resolution even with 11 senate republicans voting with democrats to overturn the emergency funding for the wall, but actually it won't be enough to fight off a presidential veto. the recall pentagon officials announced earlier plans to divert nearly $4 billion from the military to fund the border wall. back to the impeachment fight. joining me from the festival in austin, texas, senator amy klobuchar a member of the judiciary committee and running for president of the united states in 2020. thank you for being here, senator. >> thank you. it's great to be on and from beautiful austin. >> a beautiful town indeed.

a short time ago your campaign released a statement on the latest reports that we're getting that the president told the russians he was not concerned or unconcerned with the 2016 election meddling. you said in part that our nation's top law enforcement and national security officials from both democrats and republicans have made it clear that russia attacked our democracy. is this the most egregious thing in your mind that the president is alleged to have done? >> oh, not at all. it's one of many things. i think it's a pattern, and to me the call, of course, the smoki smoking gun we have, memo describes the call to the president where our president basically said, hey, go out there to a foreign country and get a bunch of dirt on one of my opponents to help me. what he said. to me that is just like watergate when they broke in. maybe back then had file cabinets and then a cover-up,

just like here. the call which wasn't classified that memo placed on some super secret server. so to me that is where you start the investigation, and this is obviously part of it, because of the fact that this president has always been putting himself, his business, his future in front of our country. that is just wrong. that is why the founding fathers set up impeachment. james madison during the constitutional convention said the reason we need these articles of've'vement was that a president could basically betray our country to a foreign power, thinks of other countries and you need the power to impeach. that's what this is about. >> i mentioned earlier, mitch mcconnell, senate majority leader fairly quiet for the most part. listen to one thing he said back in march of this year. this was all about what the

senate would do if've'vement happens. take a live. >> if impeachment were the to happen the senate has no choice if the house was to act the senate immediately goes into a trial. >> the expectation has been that any impeachment articles from the ho us would immediately die in the senate, many thought so, because of him. politico put out an article saying he could give impeachment the garland treatment, the heisman holding up. where do you think mitch mcconnell will play with this now? do you get a sense he'll put it through, or what? >> i take him at his words there. he said you'd have to have a trial and that's what we'll have to have. even for the last impeachment in the senate when i was actually there was a federal judge out of louisiana we ended up impeaching because of some serious ethical crimes. we had a trial for that. it was with about 15 senators, but we had an over a week-long trial. this idea the house would come over with impeachment articles

and that there would be no trial is absurd. that's what the we will argue and i think there's a strong case to make with the american people and so much of this will depend, of course, on the work the house is doing. i think that document is a smoking gun, but my guess is that there are so many corroborating witnesses to that or other similar calls or other similar discussions with the president. the aid was cut off to this fledgling democracy. i visited ukraine with senator biden and he was literally messing around with that support. in my mind when i look at that memo, in order to be able to get them to do the dirty work for him politically, and i think you're going to see people that used to be in the white house that are going to come forward either of their own patriotism or through a subpoena. that's going to be a tough case for the republicans to vote against. >> a lot of people waiting for some supporters of the

president, republican supporters of the president, to cross over. you know, your former colleague jeff flake from arizona, if there was a secret vote some 30 senators would probably vote to support impeachment of the president. you talked to your colleagues behind the scenes all the time. if there was a secret vote based on what you're hearing, how many republicans do you think would vote for the president for impeachment? >> that, i don't i not know and could never predict that, but i do know that there is a lot of concern about what's going on, and i wish they would be more vocal about it. national security concerns. >> do you hears with whirs from colleagues? hear s wiwhispers from your republican colleagues? >> yes. about concerns of the last few years, yes. >> especially now. >> uh-huh. and what you led the program with here right before me, which is the idea you're going to take away from our military bases and

veterans to fund his wall just because it was something he kept saying at a bunch of campaign rallies. you start to see cracks, you start to see people like mitt romney voicing concerns about this. some republican governors, a house member. that's just the beginning. i think so much of this should be focused on what's right in front of us. which is that phone call and that set of facts, and we go from there, and the cover-up involved. i think after going through that long-ranging mueller report which i think had some very damning things in it, we know that one of the focuses here is to keep this on the facts, and the difference with the mueller report, which i think you know, is that that was about a past election. this is ongoing conduct about this forthcoming election, conduct that happened while this man was president of the united states. and that makes for a different national security argument, argument about our military,

argument about patriotism. >> let me ask about you. do you think impeachment should be narrowly now focused on the ukraine story? >> look, i'm a former prosecutor and i believe you follow the facts. you follow the evidence. that's going to be for the house to figure out. we have a different role in the senate. we are the jurors. i just believe they should follow their leads. as we like to say, you follow the money. well, in this case, you follow where donald trump wants to go in terms of his own personal interests, his own money, his own political interests, and you figure out where this goes. that means getting the other calls that are on that super secret server and making sure i know those are frozen now, so they can't be somehow deleted on that server. and you make sure you read all of that and see all of it, and today i also announced a new policy that i have as president, on whistle-blowers. part of the problem here. you don't want that delay. law says goes right to congress

after a week from the director of national intelligence, and that any office of legal counsel opinion should be made public. that was messy, and if another whistle-blower comes forward it has to be handled by book. as president that's what i would dornlgts acting dni says it was a little bit of a gray area, which is why he went to the administration first. talk to you quickly about a new york magazine article that came out today. it has you and cory booker on the cover talking about impeachment basically taking the wind out of the sails of many of the candidates. in the last few days, fund-raising critical and yes, made the next debate stage, but do you get a sense it's kind of taken the wind out of your message? where you were all there and campaign and bread and butter issues and now what a lot of people are talking about is ba tlk in washington and an impeachment? >> i have two thoughts there. one is the wind is blowing my hair around.

plenty of wind to take me to the white house. secondly, i'm a mom and you learn to do two things at once. i have done my job in terms of focusing, a member of the judiciary committee. this is actually the anniversary of the kavanaugh questioning. >> yes, yes. >> which i played a major role in and i know that, yes, a schedule will change if we're in the middle of an impeachment trial i'm going to be there, but you can do two things at once. the american people have been doing two things at once forever since donald trump came in. they understand as you saw in the results of the 2018 election he's flaunting the law. why they et voed for check and balance and want an optimistic economic agenda for this country. i did an interview with steve kornacki earlier at this festival for an hour and we talked how you can do 0 both. you can have an optimistic agenda for the country and also make sure we've got a president that will obey the law. >> in order for you to continue,

has to be all about that. do you have a cash flow problem with your campaign? >> no. we are doing well. i've been careful with our money. we have money in the bank and that's what's important. i see this for the long haul and have been very careful as has my campaign. we have stuck together from the very beginning all our managers, tremendous operations with really well-respected state directors. starting up our strong campaigns with many, many staff in both new hampshire and iowa. we're in it to win. iowa, starting line, just came out and said we had the most endorsement of elected and former electeds of any other candidate. we are building this campaign from the ground up. that is how you win in the early states and how you win a general. the last thing i'll say is what i said at the debate. i am not running for half of america. i'm running to be the president for all of america. that means bringing in independents, moderate

republicans and independents. yes it is the end of the quarter, and anyone can help us at amy klobuchar dotcom. help us. we would love your help. >> senator, go got to run. you have bill maher's support. still ahead, the president's secret correspondence with the saudi royal family and vladimir putin. why weren the transcripts of those placed in a highly classified computer server? because they need the massive capacity of 5g with ultra wideband, so more screaming, streaming, posting fans... can experience 5g all at once. this is happening in 13 stadiums all across the country. now if verizon 5g can do this for the nfl... imagine what it can do for you.

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bottom of the hour. a lot to get to on this saturday here on msnbc. if it is saturday, you know where the president is. even with the biggest controversy of his presidency, consuming his administration, mr. trump hitting his golf clubs today in virginia with one of his favorite senators, lindsey graham. coming up, take a look how trump is trying to spin this political scandal. stay with us. stay with us.

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okay. ten days. just ten days since the public learned of the whistle-blower complaint. the whole controversy came out of nowhere. the truth is, it's been playing out for months. all in plain sight. take a look. it starts back in august of 2018 when president trump signed a national defense authorization act including a $1 billion in aid for ukraine. jump ahead to april 21st this year when the comedian volodymyr zelensky win as landslide victory at ukrainian president. then four days later joe biden announces candidacy and two days later a report on rudy giuliani secret plans to krafl to ukraine, not meddling in an election, in an investigation, which we have a right to do.

jump ahead two months to president trump's phone call with zelensky in which he asks the ukrainian president for a favor, and two weeks after that, the whistle-blower formally filed his complaint to congress and about a month later three house congressional committees began investigating giuliani's involvement with ukraine. two days later the administration finally released the most funds to ukraine they had been holding several months. 90 days after that, the explosive "washington post" article. dropping a bombshell on the whistle-blower complaint, setting off a series of events leading us to where we are. and impeachment. one of the allegations against the president involves the highly unusual use of a classified computer system to store details of some of his most politically sensitive calls. according to the "new york times" the white house use add system accessible by only a select few of top officials to store transcripts of calls from

president vladimir putin and the saudi royal family. this comes after the whistle-blower claimed the white house tried to lock down trump's ukraine call records. and a reporter from politico on top of this cover the white house and washington and msnbc legal contribute as well. welcome. daniel, start with you. explain what exactly is going on here with this latest reporting here on the server and these conversations. >> basically after president trump's calls with the mexican leader and the australian leader were leaked early on in the administration, they were very embarrassing to both sides, particularly president trump. so the white house and the national security council moved to make it much harder for officials to access these call transcripts or reconstructions of those calls and to, you know, they moved a lot of these call transcripts into a more secure system where it's called the

code word system, and that's only used for highly classified material including covert operations, you know, other things that, you know, should have a tight close-hold system, but if you look at many of these calls they don't actually have classified information on them. >> do we know it doesn't have classified informations? when it is classified at this point? you mentioned in reporting there at politico it is a stark departure from how the servers normally is used and how memos of the president's exchanges are typically handled. the question -- you mentioned it was after those leaks with the mexican president and the australian prime minister, but how unusual is it now for this white house? >> i think it's pretty unusual, because, you know, of course, president trump has hated leaks from the beginning, but the reason that they were putting these call transcripts into these much more locked-down

system bat not because of national security implications. it was because what he often says on these calls is embarrassing to him personally. and they're politically sensitive. and so, you know, it's one thing if you are talking with a military leader or a, you know, the uk prime minister or discussing much more sensitive plans but it's another if you're just trying to prevent leaks from happening, especially with countries like saudi arabia and russia where, you know, those relationships are much more controversial. >> yes. some of those conversations with the saudi royal family coming in the days and weeks just after the jamal khashoggi murder. talk with you about this, katie. daniel talking about political sensitivity of this. talk about the legal ramifications of it all. the white house on good legal ground with protecting these conversations? >> well, it's remarkable,

kendis, about daniel's story he did in politico is that the white house lawyers took the active move to be able to deal with this particular whistle-blower's complaint when it kelt with that zelensky call with ukraine. along think concept sometimes the cover-up is as bad as the crime. look at this particular factual scenario. if you have a collection of calls put in a highly classified locked-down server system to avoid disclosure and not because they contain top-secret or issues of national security, then you're pretty much avoiding the transparency that should be the american people should be entitled to receive. now, i'm not advocating, kendis, in any way wa, shape or form that the american public should be privy to any and all conversations had with foreign leaders but we know it's being done by president trump and his administration to hide potential criminal acts or to hide potentially even embarrassing

acts, it really doesn't meet the requisite grounds to put that that particular type of server. the president has been given wide berth about these things. we know about the conversations with president putin, somebody like the royal family and even details about the murder of jamal khashoggi put in that server system. we should have full disclosure given to the congressional committees necessary to get that information out. >> pick up on that right there. because, of course, now we have the impeachment inquiry. from a legal standpoint, do democrats have any grounds to declassify many of these interactions or these conversations? will they ever be able to get their hands on this? >> they will be able to get that, number one, and number two, in the context of getting that information, it is a forgone conclusion you will see articles and i mean plural, kendis, articles of impeachment against donald trump.

ultimately the senate has to do the trial. there are rules of procedure that are followed by the senate to do this, but kendis, mitch mcconnell in and of himself could not conduct a trial in the senate. there is no court that could force him to do that, and so we know he's previously stated he would conduct a trial, but that was in the about instrucstract. now there's a real possibility but we don't actually know if mitch mcconnell will do it. >> we don't know. thanks to you both. doing tremendous work at politico covering this white house. thanks to you both. how is the president planning to handle all of this impeachment investigation? new reports say president trump trying a new tactic. playing the victim cards. really. the trump team sees impeachment at the perfect opportunity to make americans feel sorry for a president who hairly pitted anyone but himself. but will this blueprint actually

pay dividends for the embattled commander in chief? a big question. joining me to discuss associate editor for real clear politics, a.b. stoddard. >> thanks. >> kendis. >> will the president be successful playing the victim card and how does he go about this? >> well, you know he's a very stable genius and goes on his gut instincts and this is a trump staple. he's told us many times before he doesn't get credit for this. he would be getting better press if that. he's blaming the do-nothing savage democrats and at events with foreign leaders he's come to the microphones and told us fictional tales about them all coming up and woefully lamenting the bad press he gets in the u.s. and they think it's incredible unfair. this is something that works with his supporters. they want to believe he's under siege from the deep state and i believe it will raise a lot of

dollars and keep them excited and engaged. it's really the persuadable trump voters or the trump-triers the president needs to worry about. if they believe he's continuing to lie about joe biden, continuing to be, to go thermonuclear and be reckless in something as serious as the rule of law, potentially abuse of power, those people who liked their tax cuts and like supreme court justice confirmations and everything else, those are the ones he has to worry about breaking away. it's the republican senators who are increasingly concerned about what rudy giuliani was up to. who was involved besides him? across the government? mick mulvaney, acting chief of staff, secretary of state mike pompeo, the vice president mike pence and on an on. where this goes is still unknown, because of that factor, and rudy is showing off he has the receipts and is ready to share them. so you see a hesitance among

republicans to, as ben sasse warned them circle the wagons, because once the whistle-blower talks to chairman burr's committee the senate intelligence committee, once he talks to the house intelligence committee this goes beyond his complaint to people that are inside the white house that were so alarmed by those conversations you were referencing in the previous segment and that's why the president's response right now, he's going to really be sticking -- throwing things against the wald al and see wha sticks because he doesn't know where this is going. >> the president good at the art of the deal is very good at the art of the spin. even detractor would say that he knows how to work the media. but is impeachment one of those narratives in this controversy right now? one he just can't control? >> yes. because as i said we just don't know where it's going to go. i believe that ultimately republicans were the ones on

capitol hill who pushed him to be transparent with the transcript, to allow the dni, the acting dni to testify before congress and ultimately share the complaint and declassify it. i think it's because they couldn't continue to defend blocking the transmission of the complaint. mitch mcconnell approved it by unanimous consent in the senate the other day and i believe that they were forcing his hand and that's because they don't know where this is going to go, and they believe the complaint is credible. so he's going to spin this and that it's usually through a partisan lens that's going to be, to blame the media and democrats. what he's always done. again, the people who want to believe him will absolutely believe him and rally behind him and never, their support will never break. it's the other republicans who get him up in these polls to 45% sometimes and then it swings down to 38%. those are the ones he has to worry about as i said, because

he doesn't know how many people inside the white house or the administration are going to end up joining the whistle-blower and talking about whether or not in these phone calls and in other activities, you know, dispatching rudy giuliani, he abuses his power or betrayed, you know, the national security interests of the united states. >> all right. "real clear politics." leave it there with you. thank you for your time. still ahead, more on the whistle-blower complaint and the impeachment inquiry into the president. a reminder today at 4:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc, global citizen festival live from central park. live performances including queen, pharrell williams and alecia keys. (snoring) what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts.

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from the global citizen's festival. >> reporter: hey there. gates just opened. behind me you see people first starting to come open. when they first opened people actually were sprinting in. 60,000 people usually come here and what's super cool all of the attendee hs to work to get 30s tickets. you can't buy them. actually had to do something to get to the goal of ending extreme poverty by 2030. i met some global citizens here. this is mae. how did you get your tickets to this incredible day? >> i went on the global citizen app and sent emails to some representatives and senators to help with things like poverty, children abuse and women's rights. it was like, i'm getting a free concert ticket and helping. super cool. >> reporter: actually having to get in touch with leaders, with different people like that in order to make this change? >> yes. we have to send emails and even phone calls to be entered to win

the be tickets. >> reporter: how does it feel here to be as a concert you didn't buy tickets for? did something like that to get here? >> it was great. super excited since i won the tickets and knowing i made shtype of difference. you said 60,000 people. that's a lot of difference we all made. >> reporter: absolutely. who are you excited to see? >> i'm here to see mct. queen fans. excited to hear from queen. >> i'm introducing mct 127. you'll get to see me that that. excited for the lineup. incredible. queen is headlining. yesterday i heard their sound track was totally out of control. heard alicia keys sound track myself. amazing. coolest time to be in the middle of new york city for an incredible cause. >> the old man googles mct 127 right here on set. >> reporter: a k-bot band and a

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good afternoon. i'm kendis gibson at msnbc headquarters in new york. a bombshell involving this white house meeting. the "new york times" reporting the administration use add highly classified computer system to store transcripts of calls between president trump and both vladimir putin and the saudi royal family. the president's special envoy to ukraine resigns. what does that mean as democrats call for him to testify. and that infamous white house meeting. the president and two top russian officials seen smiling, laughing in the oval office. now what we're learning about what the u.s. president may have told the russians that alarmed many people in that room. so where to begin? first up, the "new york times" is now reporting a white house classified computer system is used to hold transcripts of not only trump's conversations with ukraine but also vladimir putin and the saudi royal family. the new revelation about the

oval office meeting with the russians in may 2017, the "washington post" here reporting that trump told russian officials that he wasn't concerned about moscow's interference in the u.s. presidential election and the number of house representatives supporting impeachment continues to grow. 226 the latest numbers, now backing an inquiry. kelly o'donnell has it all covered from the white house and joins us there. kelly, curious about that classified computer system that is being used to hold the transcripts of sensitive calls. how unusual is this? >> reporter: it's hard to measure against what we know from within the trump years, but comparing it to past presidencies, they did not use that code word higher-level security for classified calls between presidents, let's say for example, president bush or president obama and foreign leaders. this is something that has been an adjustment made during the

trump years. officials here described because of leaks early in the administration where things from various calls including they cite australia and mexico where there were leaks they viewed to be embarrassing about the nature of the calls, the way the conversation was portrayed publicly made the trump administration tightens restriction whose could have access to calls. jump ahead to the current moment we're in and it's a more serious question of the content of the call between the president and the leader of ukraine talking about military aid. talking about corruption in ukraine and talking about the bidens, joe bind, former vice president and his son hunter. that now we know, because white house officials have confirmed, was a call with the notes and associated documents placed behind this higher level of security's you have to have a code word in order to access this server to get those documents. other kinds of access would require less sophisticated levels of screening. so it means they're putting it

behind a higher wall of security. we have been told by officials here that it included calls beyond ukraine and the reporting that you cited gave us specific examples of calls with president putin. that really makes sense when you think of the last couple of years, and with the saudi royal family. also stands out because, of course, of the controversy of the u.s. partnership with saudi arabia at a time when the royal family, the crown prince himself, was implicated in the death of khashoggi, the "washington post" columnist. so how unusual? certainly a departure from what other presidents have done. less clear is how much that taken place in the trump years. narrowing the scope who can see the information contained in calls, and does it suggest that the people who put those calls behind that firewall, lawyers for the national security council did they do that because of concern about leaks that the president expressed or did they do that because of what the

conversation was about? those are questions that will be pursued through this impeachment inquiry under way with democrats on capitol hill. >> kelly o'donnell there for the white house. thank you. speaker nancy pelosi is stressing the urgency of the impeachment investigation. >> this is not a pause for any joy that we have to go down this path. it's a difficult decision to make. but we have that obligation, because the actions that were taken could undermine the constitution and the oath we take to protect and defend including the oath that the president takes. >> as such the man tasked with the brunt of the inquiry adam schiff instructed his committee to work through its two-week recess. the chairman of the house intelligence oversict and foreign affairs committees

demanding secretary of state mike pvompeo produce documents y next friday involving ukraine. and whdo you know committee are requesting and scheduling depositions from five senior state department officials in the coming two weeks. you see them there. you get a sense this is a sign this is an investigation moving very, very quickly? >> precisely. quickly and efficiently, at least what we're told by sources on capitol hill, kendis. the narrative that's developed is whether or not there is any difference or any line in the sand drawn between the state department as well as former new york city mayor rudy giuliani who is now, of course, the president's personal attorney. now, the question becomes, will republicans start to break away from the administration? so far we haven't seen any significant pushback especially in the house of representatives. but when you go to the senate,

as i left capitol hill yesterday, i can tell you it's a much more reserved atmosphere. republicans in the senate really carefully keeping their comments to themselves as of now. you heard from the likes of senator mitt romney as well as ben sasse, two republicans quite frankly critical of this administration for quite some time. that said, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell has also given the appearance as of now he wants to let this process play out and we all know this. that speaker pelosi would like to see the impeachment, articles of impeachment maybe brought by thanksgiving, around that timetable and with a vote before the end of the year. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell told npr should the house act the senate would act quickly thereafter. >> kevin, talk to you what you mentioned there. a little bit of chinks in the republican armor on the senate's part. senator from arizona, jeff flake, talking about all of this

and his take on why republicans haven't supported impeachment. here. >> -- all of the attention is on your former colleagues in the senate, they would be the jury if there was an impeachment proceedingso when you call your friends in d.c. what are they saying about these new allegations? >> well, somebody mentioned yesterday that if there were a private note that there would be 30 republican votes. that's not true. there would be at least 35. or maybe -- maybe more if it were a private vote, but that's not possible. so they have to come out and many of them are up for re-election in tough seats and i know that feeling. >> at least 35 is what he's saying. kevin, ask be awe this. asking amy klobuchar about this in the last hour, she did not take the bait. from the people you're talking with on capitol hill and what you're hearing, if there was a

secret vote would there be a lot of support positive impeach this president? >> with all due respect to the formatter senator from arizona he is a former senator. the political reality he doesn't have a vote. when i talk to republican senators and senior aides to those republicans the reality is that there is a morning consult poll found just 10% of republicans right now are behind impeachment nap said, look at independents, they are increasingly split. a near divide in terms of those who are for it, those against an impeachment inquires and still about 15% hanging in the middle and could be swayed either way. that matters particularly because so much of the narrative, i can't stand using that word as a reporter, is whether or not democrats would be able to regain the house of representatives with an impeachment and we -- in often we cite what happened with the clinton impeachment and republicans overplaying their hand and whatnot. this is uncharted territory. this is a very new, political

moment, and so there are questions for suburban democrats and suburban republicans, and i just don't think enough details have been released that i think over the next week or so as new details in the investigation continues, we will have much more clear, a more clear illustration, perhaps, of where we are. >> and it's easy for many of them to do this wait and see tactic as we see. this might play out as soon as by thanksgiving. >> yes. >> from bloomberg news, thank you. >> thank you. all right. how is impeachment playing beyond the d.c. beltway or the corridor for that mat jer the latest morning consult poll kevin referred to shows support for impeachment has grown to 43% with an equal percentage of voters opposed. this poll came out earlier in the week. these, by the way, are tough times for presidential candidates trying to get

attention for their campaigns. the spotlight now squarely on trump and impeachment and capitol hill democrats and such. our nbc's ali vitali is with the warren campaign in rock hill, south carolina where a campaign event is about to kick off and ali, talking about, she has a really, really difficult task in trying to talk about issues that are big for the people who are there in rock hill, south carolina and beyond, and also talk about the impeachment as a senator. >> reporter: yeah. that's exactly right, kendis. because even in the course of the past few minutes as i'm here with folks waiting to go into the event behind me, i've heard a lot of enthusiasm for the idea of impeachment and people dialed in on the issue. of course, these are democratic voters we're talking to here and i spent the past few days in new hampshire talking with voters republican and democrat and they really did illustrate for me in realtime the split we see in the polling you guys have been

talking about. listen to what they told me over the course of this past week in new hampshire. >> so when you see that democrats are, though, moving forward with impeachment -- >> they're crazy are the are you think they're crazy. >> they're crazy. >> what's happening in congress is not helping the democrats. they are not helping themselves acting like school children on a playground. >> reporter: do you think democrats have waited too long to do that or is now the right time? >> i think they've been very prudent in decision-making up to this point, taken their time to make their decision first and final, that nancy pelosi made sure that she slowed them down when they were jumping the first time around and waited for him to pull another one, which he did obviously. with this phone call to ukraine. >> reporter: and kendis, kevin cerilli made a really good point when you talked how polling shows this breakdown along party lines. in the course of my conversations i found that people who tended to like trump before this latest information

flow about what he said to the president of ukraine have told me they don't think there's a there, there on impeachment. democratic voters do think now is the right time to go forward on impeachment inquiry. it's going to be interesting to see those people who maybe aren't fans of president donald trump or independent voters, thousand they contin he they break down the polls and out here on the campaign trail. you made a good point as well, kendis. for the candidates out here on the campaign trail there's a little juggling act ak to start because they have to continue talking about the issues that are already in play in this democratic primary like health care and things like it but also contend with what's going on in washington. because that's where the media attention is and we've seen how fast this story developed over the course of uft? this week. also because voters wants to continue to hear about impeachment and what democrats can offer going up against president donald trump. >> you've been on the campaign trail over the last ten days,

and quite a bit, you're now in south carolina. while all of this has been developing, "new york" magazine reports this has taken the air out of the campaign. do you still get a sense that there is a little bit of excitement or has it -- noticed a little trend there in the last two weeks? >> reporter: i did read that piece and i think it's interesting, because this impeachment inquiry and the news surrounding washington could have a chilling effect on the democratic field. a lot of candidates rely on cable news and coverage to continue to get their message out there. as we focus on the hill, rightly so ought the news comes out, takes away from attention out on the campaign trail. that doesn't mean candidates will stop campaigning but it means if you have a day job in washington it may make it easier tore you to find ways into the news cycle at this impeachmented inquiry continues. for candidates fund-raising for lives for example, like senator cory booker, just two days away

from that deadline he set for himself raising $1.7 million by end of the month. interested to see if that comes to fruition. they've had $1.3 million raised, but impeachment could have a chilling effect on the democratic 2020 field. interesting to see how that plays out here on the trail. again, in the conversations i've had with voters, they're walking and chewing gum at the same time, so to speak. they are interestened and very much paying attention what's going on in washington. that said they also want to hear from the candidates on what their platform is and what they're offering to democratic voters. >> yes. that's the thing. many candidates walking and chewing gum, but this, money is the name of the game. got to afford the gum to be able to walk as well. ali vitali in rock hill, south carolina. thank you. coming up, the urgent concern right now for tens of thousands across the country. when will they get their next paycheck? auto workers locked in a national strike against general motors are about to get a major pay cut.

where that showdown is heading next. speaker nancy pelosi accusing the attorney general bill barr of going rogue. the details behind barr's role in the whistle-blower controversy. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix.

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it's been reported that there's a cyberattack on business every 39 seconds. ouch. i don't even want to think about it. comcast business has a solution. we go beyond fast with a cloud-based security system that automatically updates, so you always have the latest protection. phishing. malware. risky sites. it can help block all of that. get fast internet and add comcast business securityedge for just $29.95 a month. it's one less thing for us to worry about. comcast business. beyond fast. juul record. they took $12.8 billion from big tobacco. juul marketed mango, mint, and menthol flavors, addicting kids to nicotine. five million kids now using e-cigarettes. the fda said juul ignored the law with misleading health claims. now juul is pushing prop c, to overturn

san francisco's e-cigarette protections. say no to juul, no to big tobacco, no to prop c. tens of thousands of auto workers who have been striking against general motors are now starting to feel a pink. the united ought other worksers receiving their first union strike paychecks. by the way that amounts to roughly $250 versus the more

than $1,200 for many workers. negotiations between the union and general motors still under way as strikers prepare to enter their third week on picket lines. general motors, by the way did a reversal. just a couple days ago said they will pay health care costs for strikers rather than leaving it up to the union. analysts say gm is losing at least $50 million a day with the strikes. this is the first national strike for the uaw on general motors in more than a decade. turning back to the impeachment talk and battle, and how to protect the whistle-blower. joined now by "new york times" washington correspondent and msnbc contributor charlie savage and with me as well msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor glen kirchner. welcome to you both. and rudy giuliani seems to press on he was just obeying orders. a sense he's acting more than just trump's personal attorney? where's the line here for him?

>> the line for rudy giuliani? >> yes. >> giuliani is a very interesting character in this whole saga. even before the ukraine theme erupted going on tv to defend trump during the mueller investigations and the sometimes blurting out things that seemed to be the opposite of what was in trump's interests. i think he bears tremendously scrutiny and about to get it. >> and he has been getting a lot of scrutiny and a lot of republicans quietly giving him scrutiny. meantime, as you know, the "new york times" recently reported that white house officials and the justice department already knew and has known that the whistle-blower works for the cia. charlie, you pointed that out as well on twitter. what concerns are there with the whistle-blower's ability to protect their identity? >> you know i think there's a legitimate concern, kendis, because we know that the president's recklessness knows no bounds, because when we hear

him talking most recently about things like, well, these folks are almost spies. you know what we used to do with spies. we've also heard him talk about the invading hoards coming up across our southern border and what do we have after that? we have a mass shooting of hispanics in el paso. we had him talk about the press being the enemy of the people, and we have people who are sending pipe bombs to among other people or organizations news outlets. so it's not like there aren't people listening to what the president says, and he speaks in such reckless terms i think there be legitimate concerns. now, ordinarily, who protects people in the criminal justice system who might be in a whistle-blower's situation? the united states marshal service. i have had more people go into witness protection as a former career prosecutor than i can count and the u.s. marshals do an amazing job protecting witnesses who are at risk.

who does the marshal service work for? bill barr's department of justice. so i think the whistle-blower has every reason to be concerned, and i think that the government needs to mobilize to make sure that the whistle protector and others who come forward are supported and protected. >> charlie, what are we hearing about this whistle-blower so far? i mentioned the "new york times" had gotten out there about a few details about that person. do we get a sense that that person wants to come forward and testify in front of congress? >> well, this person is clearly trying to obey the rules of the national, intelligence whistle-blower protection act so he is legally protected from reprisal. not reprisal like just referred to in a vigilante attack but in terms of losing his security clearance, demoted or fired from his job. so he has hired an attorney and is trying to follow this system to a t. one piece of that system is that he is allowed to go to congress

if his -- his complaint is rejected by the system. supposed to be the inspector general here not the dni. but he has to obey the director of national intelligence's instructions about how to go to congress, the law said, in order to protect classified information. and one of the little loopholes here that the trump administration has apparently been exploiting has been to just not issue those instructions. he keeps asking for it. his lawyers keep asking for it and the intelligence committee keeps asking for it. tell us how to do it so he can one to us directly, they won't supply the directions. go talk to congress now he would lose the legal protections he apparently has so far successfully been trying to wrap himself in. >> interesting indeed. meantime, as you heard the president here in new york, had a fund-raiser. a lot of cameras rolling. you heard what the president

said. what he said about whistle-blowers and those people who gave that person the information. when you heard what he said, and an american president saying that what were your thoughts? >> it made me a little nauseous as both a former prosecutor and as an american citizen, but i think there is a sentence in michael atkinson's report on the whistle-blower. michael atkinson being inspector general for the intelligence committee. second sentence of his report should give the whistle-blower and perhaps all of us a little bit of a comfort level, because here what it says, kendis. bears repeating. he said in the course of my official duties i have received information from multiple u.s. government officials that the president of the united states is using his power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in our 2020 u.s. elections. right there, this is not hearsay. this is the inspector general saying, i have spoken with

multiple u.s. officials who have said the president is misusing his office. sounds like the whistle-blower very soon will be in good company when congress begins to call these people to testify. >> and atkinson already testified behind closed doshs to congress. thank both for being here. still ahead, new developments. moments ago, a murder trial getting national attention. the former dallas police officer amber guyger on trial for shooting and killing an unarmed black man in his own apartment. tv announcer: it's just as powerful as the lexus rx... as many safety features as the rx, the new... the lexus rx has met its match.

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back with a disturing story involving a school outside washington, d.c. a black sixth grader says he was pinned down by weis classmates who mocked her and cut her hair. now the girl and her family are speaking out. we have the story. ♪ >> reporter: 12-year-old amari allen loves playing the violin. and going to class. but for the past few days she has stayed home from her school emanuel christian in northern virginia. >> i was pretty traumatized.

>> reporter: she says three white boys attacked her during recess monday and violently bullied her about her dreadlocks. >> one of them put my hands behind my back one put her hands over my mouth so i couldn't scream for help or anything and one of them just cut my hair. >> reporter: her grandparents outragened and emotional. >> the boys described her hair as being ugly and nappy. >> i was very heartbroken. >> reporter: they want the boys to be punished. today the school issued a statement saying they're deeply disturbed by the allegations and all of the students involved in this matter have stepped away from school. police are now investigating. discrimination based on natural hair-styles has raised concerns nationwide. in new jersey, a high school referee who forced a wrestler to cut his dreadlocks last december suspended now two years. back in virginia, amari plans to

be back in class on monday. >> thanks to rehema ellis there. now to the murder trial involving former dallas police officer and what was a highly unusual saturday court session. amber guyger shot an unarmed neighbor in his apartment. she mistook him for an intruder. the judge dismissed the sequestered jury until monday morning. we have the story. >> reporter: good afternoon from dallas. day six of the amber guyger trial ended almost as soon as it began. this was the day we anticipated potential closure, but instead the judge sequestered the jury to hear testimony from a retired police officer who studied officer-involved shootings. on the stand today we brought up unintentional blindness. in the heat of an incident, focus on one thing summing up

guyger's state of mind walking into apartment that wasn't hers opening fire and kill iing both jean. this tragedy unfolded saying she walked into that apartment that wasn't hers claiming she saw a man approach her telling him to put his hands up and that's when she pulled the trigger twice. prosecution focusing on two key things. a bright red doormat outside jean's apartment questioning guyger how she didn't recognize that walking inside and also the care she gave to the victim or lack thereof after shots were fired. guyger claiming she stopped cpr when she called 911 to report what happened. as it stands now the jury will be returning monday. where we expect the defense to rest in this case. guyger if convicted of murder could face up to life in prison, but there's still lesser charges potentially on the table. that being manslaughter and

criminally negligent homicide. much more to one monday. >> the case rheauming at 9:30 in the the morning dallas time. what we're learning about the timeline fon an impeachment investigation into the particular ed. democrats say they're moving quickly. house judiciary member steve cohen tells us what we can expect. a reminder today at 4:00 p.m. eastern, just about in a half hour, global citizen festival live from central park performers include queen, pharrell williams and alicia keys.

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election. this comes on the heels of two big news regarding members of the trump administration. a congressional spp for secretary of state mike pompeo and a sudden resignation from the president's special envoy to ukraine kurt volker. all the while the call for impeachment grows in the house with 226 members of congress now endorsing such an inquiry. joining me now is one of those. congressman steve cohen, a member of the house judiciary committee. congressman, thank you for being here from memphis. prior to it. >> good to be with you. >> as you know, speaker of the house says the intel committee chair adam schiff will be the one to lead this effort. you're on the committee. is that a good call? why them? >> they have the ability to hear things that are classified. they all have a history and experience in those issues and because this is a foreign

affairs issue, a foreign diplomacy issue, and a national security issue, it's important that some of the erring o hearie read in classified settings and adam schiff and his committee are the best for that. >> and you you get to vote whether there are grounds for impeachment. walk me through this process right now. >> well, intel will do work during the two-week break we're on. they will subpoena folks. they will subpoena records. they will try to have hearings. i think there will be instructed by the administration and uninstructed the judicial committee coming up with every rids o ridiculous, ludicrous, in complying with subpoenas and will have to go for contempt and go to court and take time. they'll find the same problem wes have.

might not have a problem with volker in that he's resigned. he might want to testify, but they'll have problems with some of the other people but will do what they can to get testimony and as they develop their story and their case and liable to find other things. some have said this particular situation is like the -- the missing gun. the shot that went off they needed. i think it's going to be more like an arsenal. i think they're going to find things about the saudis, find things about the russians, and difficult to find that because the trump administration will try to obfuscate and try to, not give congress what they need. obstruction of congress. but there's nor information trump talked to the saudis and russians that he shouldn't have, involving our national security and reveal negotiations with putin and/or the royal family in

saudi arabia and that's important for the american public to know. >> ask you about ambassador volker. to many his resignation came as a surprise last night. people say he resigned to be able to talk to the committees and to congress. have you guys gotten any indication that he's willing to speak with you? >> i've only heard through third parties that suggested he would be. he was uncomfortable with the whole situation. that he is a straight shooter. will tell us all he can, and i think that he will testify. >> is he the link right there jt link to everything? do you get a sense that, that once he speaks, that it will connect all of the dots? >> well i think that it will help and for sure whether it's all the dots i don't know. he was contacted by trump and/or pompeo, asked to go to kiev and kind of grease the wheels for giuliani's visit.

how much he did he can tell us about, there may be other things giuliani did. he's not somebody that you control once you get him in some place. he's going to do whatever and not abide by the rules. you might need some other people to testify. i suspect somebody from intel committee. i think jim himes was going overseas. i expect he'll be in kiev. i don't know if for a fact but a lot of areas people need to be questioned, depositions taken and a possibility of hearings. i know there will be a hearing with the i.g. who did the report from the whistle-blower, and hopefully we'll have the whistle-blower. but i think it's going to be precarious for the whistle-blower, because he's an american hero, he or she, and they're being threatened by the president who says something about treason, and the suggests he makes could send somebody not mentally stable off and trump knows people with mental health problems can do killings yet here he is saying things that could invoke the danger to an

american hero and a cia agent. >> in the last hour amy klobuchar, senator from minnesota, spoke about the differences with me between the mueller investigation and this. here's a listen. >> after going through that long-ranging mueller report which i think had some very damning things in it, we know that one of the focuses here is to keep this on the facts, and the difference with the mueller report, which i think you know, is that that was about a past election. this is ongoing conduct about this forthcoming election, conduct that happened while this man was president of the united states, and that makes for a different national security argument. >> okay, sir, you heard the senator there. go you agree with her on this narrow investigation into this incident involving the ukrainians? >> well, indeed i do, because it is an ongoing situation, and even, you know, the president was interviewed by george stephanopoulos and he told him

then he would take information from a foreign power and ste stephanopoulos was startled, he should call the fbi but he made it clear he would take it and want to listen to it. the man does not learn. he's incapable of obeying the law, makes his own rules and will do anything to get elected. he learned that from roy cohen. a movie out about roy cohen i suggest everybody see it suggests who trained this man. it's very questionable. the smoking gun, it's out there, but makes he think about nixon. those viewers remember watergate, this situation and this area where they kind of closed up these discussions with certain foreign leaders and this one had nothing to do with classified information, which is where that particular -- tape or broadcast went to, it's kind of like rose mary woods missing telephone calls cut out, and

that's kind of where this is and i think it may lead to more things and just needs to be somebody to be able to get into that. i'm sure we'll subpoena that and try to get incamera in intelligence committee and classified settings access to those conversations and i think they'll entitled to them. >> leave it there. congressman steve cohen, calling for the president's impeachment since november of 2017. filed articles of impeachment. finding different things for several years that you feel this president should be impeached for. our thanks to the congressman. thank for being here. >> you're welcome, kendis. democrats, as you saw, charging ahead with their impeachment inquiry as nancy pelosi levels an accusation against bill barr. >> let me ask you about the attorney general. >> he's gone rogue. >> where they're going is a cover-up of the cover-up. that's really very sad for them and to have a justice definite go so rogue.

well, they have been for a while. >> okay. although president trump did invoke barr's name in the phone call with the ukrainian president, the justice department maintains barr has never communicated with ukrainian officials. however, doj's dismissal of the whistle-blower complaint is raising new questions about barr's independence, at least from the white house. joining me now is "new york times" justice department reporter katie brenner. thank you for being here. okay. so, katie, in your article on attorney general barr, you report that the department's involvement in the case has actually been overwhelmingly positive for trump. not only did the department advise the acting director of national intelligence to keep the whistle-blower complaint from congress, it also ruled out the possibility of criminal conduct on the part of the president. so how is this whistle-blower complaint actually raising questions or concerns about barr's independence? >> sure. i think that for the justice

department what they would argue, viewed closely to the letter of the law and within the letter of the law have done nothing wrong. go back to the whistle-blower complaint. they found that there was no reason to give it to the intelligence community. committee of congress. not strictly an intelligence matter. the whistle-blower alleged possible campaign finance violations. so they said, adhering to the letter of the law, no reason to go to congress, but tech likely, odni and intelligence committee colt refer this to the justice department to look into as a criminal matter. the justice department receives that referral and after looking at it a few weeks decides no criminal conduct. again, they used career justice department attorneys as well as officials to come up with that answer. people are saying, however, it does look very, very convenient for trump. these are questions that are sort of swirling around the justice department even as bill barr's name has been invoked in ways that show the president himself believes that bill barr

is his personal attorney who is there to protect him at the justice department. >> yeah. and the name invoked quite a bit, bill barr. many wonder what's his next move and whether he will recuse himself. a lot of people say the answer is a pretty quick, no. >> right. you know, barr doesn't want to recuse himself. again, adhering to the letter of the law, why would he? is the way justice officials are looking at this. didn't know about the phone call. does not know donald trump has been using his name in this way, offering up up as a fixer ho temperature out in a foreign political situation, trump's political rival. for barr and for justice department officials they're saying because he didn't know any of this what is there to recuse? the argument for recusal, it takes away any question any interference from bill barr into wrap could be ongoing investigations if the justice department were to receive more criminal referrals about the president's behavior. this is important, because we

know bill boar is a real believer in presidential power. a real believer in executive power and he believes in many ways if you're a cabinet member you are serving the president as much as you are serving the constitution. so we will see. he's going to have to answer very, very difficult questions and make difficult choices i think in the next few weeks as impeachment looms. >> you've had several officials resigned from this administration over the last couple of months, several. all of them, were there during the ukraine issue, including, of course, the former national security adviser john bolton. dni coates, his deputy. all there when all of this was playing out. how kcome we haven't heard from them or when kl we? >> interesting to see how people leave the administration and go very, very quiet. they generally's don't criticize the president but in this instance we'll have a lot of

pressure brought by congress because of the've'vement inquiry as you point out to bring all of these people back. it's gawk to oing to be tricky. we saw during the mueller investigation the president is likely to put a lot of pressure on these people to not speak and, of course, for bill barr, he could put a lot of pressure on the attorney general to what he would would say would be to protect him. we saw that happen with jeff sessions, with rod rosenstein. all through the mueller report the president asking to do things sometimes outside the norms and sometimes outside of law in order to protect him because he felt that was the role they played. i would be surprised as an impeachment inquiry heats up and as more pressure comes to bear on these former cabinet officials and on the president himself if he doesn't look to his attorney general to, ask him to do similar things. >> all right. from the "new york times," justice reporter. thank you. coming up receipt here, nbc's richard engel brings an

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paragraph nbc's news exclusive. the former ukrainian prosecutor mentioned in the inquiry against the president, he's now speaking out. he tells nbc news he's known the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani for many years. >> were you in regular contact with him? >> no. no. it was -- there were irregular contac contacts. but yes, i have spoken with him maybe 10 times. >> ten times. >> maybe. >> always about this issue? >> this and other even political issues. >> ten times. our chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in the capital of ukraine and kiev where he caught up with him. richard. >> it's amazing this country in central europe, ukraine is once against central troubles for trump. ukraine has been a thorn in the president's side from the very

beginning. first paul manafort, the president's campaign chairman, got in trouble for taking what were determined to be illegal payments while he was working as a consultant in ukraine. then, of course, rudy giuliani, who was doing a freelance investigative mission for president trump digging in ukraine looking into the past of then vice president joe biden and joe biden's son who also worked as a consultant in ukraine. then, of course, that iconic phone call, the phone call that in a certain sense triggered all this latest controversy in which president trump appears to be pressuring the new ukrainian president to cooperate with rudy giuliani and once again dig up dirt that could help president trump in his 2020 run by hurting joe biden. so ukraine, this country in central europe that has been long a problem for president

trump, for candidate trump, and now it is front and center. but president trump hopes he's going to beat this. he beat the russia investigation, and his camp hopes they can put this one behind them as well. and in fact, come out even stronger. richardening he would, nbc new zealand, kiev. >> thanks to richard engel in kiev. we do thank you for watching the last two hours here. "msnbc live" will be back tomorrow 2:00 p.m. eastern time. of course, stick around with us. i'm online, twitter, instagram. be sure to stay with us. top of the hour, that is the stage. it is already set. behind the camera thousands of people are waiting for the start of the glob citizen festival which is kicking off in new york city. msnbc is a partner in this annual event to eradicate extreme poverty by 2030. queen, alicia keys, ferrell williams, the list goes on.

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